tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post8099086683017230728..comments2024-03-28T10:27:02.032-07:00Comments on The Renaissance Troll: Frostgrave: Let’s Talk Experience Points joe5mchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-45546234370090191872018-07-26T10:19:40.484-07:002018-07-26T10:19:40.484-07:00Loved it
Let’s Do ThisLoved it<br /><a href="https://khohealth.com/lets-do-this/" rel="nofollow">Let’s Do This</a><br />Ahne SDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03661027052350232164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-20363944827766502952017-11-22T12:33:32.482-08:002017-11-22T12:33:32.482-08:00I do not like XP Points for killing. I really thin...I do not like XP Points for killing. I really think this is one of the main unbalacing factors in the game. The best point of the game is that it is quite easy to learn and play.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-21198041931934608402017-01-16T14:36:26.301-08:002017-01-16T14:36:26.301-08:00This is a totally orthogonal idea to the (many exc... This is a totally orthogonal idea to the (many excellent) ideas above, but it occurred to me that even though Frostgrave is pretty much a free-for-all, the wizard guilds wouldn't be keen on having their members slaughtered. Perhaps after Wizard X kills his second enemy wizard, the Guild's highly trained, magic resistant assassin team would show up to ally with the other side. Especially if they'd kept up on their guild dues.Whomever1https://www.blogger.com/profile/01620957186640511201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-88360636505924850872017-01-16T09:21:40.907-08:002017-01-16T09:21:40.907-08:00The game and the xp system are fine as is. I'v...The game and the xp system are fine as is. I've never experienced an issue with it and I play in 3 different campaigns. Raising the xp for successful casts would only create more of a disparity if one wizard was having a bad casting day, while the other was not. I've had great games where I gained near 4 levels at a clip, and others where I barely gained 1. Some days you're the windshield, others you're the but. This is the nature of the frozen city and I love it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-70495734077371304562016-08-31T13:35:15.617-07:002016-08-31T13:35:15.617-07:00Great to see your thoughts Joe.
I've been play...Great to see your thoughts Joe.<br />I've been playing in a group of 4 for over a year.<br />Experience and levelling up are our greatest motivator, but there's some interest in trying to balance the other purchases (mainly soldiers and base upgrades).<br /><br />We adopted a turn limit to avoid the incentive to annhiliate.<br />Most games start with a dash for the easy treasure, then the tougher soldiers and the casters manoeuvre and battle for the contestable stuff.<br /><br />We haven't reduced XP for kills, through it seems attractive.<br />Shooty wizards do enjoy faster progression, but do have to expose themselves to shoot, most warbands now have 3 or 4 bowmen, who serve to keep heads down.<br /><br />Our best mechanism for balance is that there are 4 players.<br />If one guy looks like getting too many levels ahead (especially if he starts playing the bully), the lower ranked players have conspired to make his life more difficult.<br /><br />SteveHolmes11https://www.blogger.com/profile/17392212343858957364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-83436124419409708682016-04-25T16:27:55.684-07:002016-04-25T16:27:55.684-07:00It may have been from me simply misreading the rul...It may have been from me simply misreading the rules when we started, but we've ALWAYS ended the game when one there is only one warband left on the table, and you only get treasures that you've removed from the table up to that point.<br /><br />A tactical player can grab their share of treasure and get off the board with them to deny the opponenet any treasures still on the board.<br /><br />It discourages Wizards from going completely on the offensive and ignoring treasures. I encourage you to add that rule to your games as it increases the tactical play.Obsidian Primehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08305012214275168601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-44791814630205948862016-04-25T01:48:28.339-07:002016-04-25T01:48:28.339-07:00"I really like HR. Rohde's idea that you ..."I really like HR. Rohde's idea that you DON'T get to take all the treasure for wiping the board. The game simply end and only the ones carried are kept. All other, lost to the snow."<br /><br />We play that, and it's excellent for stopping "wipe out games" along side a turn timer (most of our games run to six-seven turns or so). You have to make a decision to use someone to grab the loot and run instead of fighting and hoping to pick it up if you beat the enemy in time. Nice added tactical choice which doesn't slow anything up.<br /><br />It also kind of helps balance low to high level warbands - even a Thug/Thief is as good as a Treasure Hunter/Knight if all their doing is running treasure off table! <br /><br />We're broadly happy with XP as is, as "blaster wizards" have tended to lose out on treasure somewhat to "snatch and grab" movement/control wizards, whilst it not being too hard to pick a blast spell for most Schools that's easy enough to cast to be useful for the odd assassination shot.<br /><br />On top of that the "blaster wizards" have had to tend to play very aggressively to get their kills in, which has lead to a very high turn over of wizards, apprentices and soldiers in their ranks which thins out their gold quite nicely :D<br /><br />Nathan Toxic Pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07610996381605071743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-5652024944910128312016-04-24T04:33:40.154-07:002016-04-24T04:33:40.154-07:00Perhaps you should go with an uneven number of tre...Perhaps you should go with an uneven number of treasures on the board to promote more conflict?joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-23573092112199871082016-04-24T04:32:34.421-07:002016-04-24T04:32:34.421-07:00The problem with the wizard's duel is that som...The problem with the wizard's duel is that some wizards are just flat out better at it! That said, something like that could certainly be worked into a scenario.joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-71460478853481530742016-04-24T04:31:07.978-07:002016-04-24T04:31:07.978-07:00Glad you like the thoughts. A 25/5 xp for spells m...Glad you like the thoughts. A 25/5 xp for spells makes a lot of sense. I do worry that it might be a little too much paper work for some people (I personally like the granularity that is more like an Old School rpg, but not every does!).joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-73419458026492891662016-04-24T04:29:37.910-07:002016-04-24T04:29:37.910-07:00Dashetal, There is certainly a situation that I ha...Dashetal, There is certainly a situation that I have seen a couple of times wherein certain wizards are just really bad when trying to compete with certain others. It's not that they are bad characters, just that for whatever reason their selection of spells just doesn't compete well with a specific enemy. This can be a problem when you have a small play group where you play against the same warband time and again. In those situations, I would probably allow players to create a new warband and let them level up a bit to catch-up (maybe play through the Dark Alchemy campaign?)joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-7305320756081774762016-04-24T04:25:31.247-07:002016-04-24T04:25:31.247-07:00I'm sure there are lots of really passionate g...I'm sure there are lots of really passionate game designers out there, I'm just lucky to have a game where people care what changes I make! But thanks for the kind words. You are probably right that experience for killing stuff should be earned by the Apprentice as well. Summon creatures would make sense too - although I fear this distinction is murky... fIn the main, I wouldn't want to change the rate of advancement very much. I think most people like the quick levelling! joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-21560953841771799172016-04-24T04:21:01.452-07:002016-04-24T04:21:01.452-07:00I think the problem actually has more to do with t...I think the problem actually has more to do with the wealth level difference between warbands than the actual experience level and I'm not completely sure how to address this, but I think some kind of handicap system could appear in the future.joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-83443630790838829982016-04-24T04:19:40.209-07:002016-04-24T04:19:40.209-07:00Paddy, if I were writing the game now, I think I w...Paddy, if I were writing the game now, I think I would definitely go with a 2n+1 formula for treasures as it seems to create more actually fighting! I like the idea of different sized treasures, and will have to think on that some more. It might be a little more detail than some players want, but I can see how it could also make the game more tactical. <br />joe5mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13381588340232280771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-85952877314063016312016-04-24T03:12:47.534-07:002016-04-24T03:12:47.534-07:00...carrying on from above having checked it'll......carrying on from above having checked it'll publish from this laptop.<br /><br />When ever we play we do adjust the treasures to 3n+1 or 3n-1 where n is the number of players. This way it avoids the you have that 3 and I'll take the others that was creeping on. <br /><br />The other thing we have done that works really well is to have small, medium and large treasures. Medium treasures are exactly like the rulebook. Small treasures represent a purse or scroll case that only reduces movement by 1 inch BUT gives a -5 on the Treasure table. Large treasures represent large chests that need to be broken open back at base. They take two characters to carry at half speed BUT generate either a +5 roll on the treasure table OR 2 rolls on the Treasure table. However, each treasure gains the same amount of XP. This offers players more of a risk/reward decision plus it mixes things up more, especially where there are wizards of different levels.<br /><br />PaddyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-28545961454187867892016-04-24T02:25:07.976-07:002016-04-24T02:25:07.976-07:00Joe,
I've been trying to reply for a while bu...Joe,<br /><br />I've been trying to reply for a while but a firewall seemed to stop me.<br /><br />I think your ideas pretty much nail many of the issues with gaining XP. <br /><br />I really like HR. Rohde's idea that you DON'T get to take all the treasure for wiping the board. The game simply end and only the ones carried are kept. All other, lost to the snow.<br /><br />One other thought is to scale the XPs for level, so that more experienced wizards and "killy" wizards are pegged back. How about, instead of a common 100XP to level up you made it 100XP + 10XP per current level. So 100XP to level up to Level 1 but 500XP to get to Level 41!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-16179056996048630732016-04-21T12:09:56.429-07:002016-04-21T12:09:56.429-07:00The biggest problem I've seen is that during a...The biggest problem I've seen is that during a campaign is that is you get off to a good start, you can basically keep that going, leading you to a situation where the one or two wizards at the top keep winning and keep getting better. As more time progresses you get a leader board where everyone gets further away from everyone else.<br /><br />So, A bonus exp for a wizard surviving against a higher level would help fix this. Something like +10 xp for every level difference after the first, so a level 10 wizard would get 0 bonus xp surviving a fight with a 11, but 10xp for a 12, 20 for 13, etc.<br /><br />Additionally you're apprentice could give you 5xp for each level, or 10 for every two.<br /><br />This just means you can play safe when you draw a fight against a current leader and still stand a chance of keeping up with the pack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-49241237814940831902016-04-20T04:13:48.571-07:002016-04-20T04:13:48.571-07:001) I think the modification should be where either...1) I think the modification should be where either the wizard, apprentice or summoned creatures that kill stuff get the xp. If there is too much micro-management, just do with wizard and apprentice.<br /><br />Reason being an apprentice is pretty much pegged to the wizard, so whatever he does, does in some way increase the exp of the wizard. Could be justified that the apprentice managed to do it successfully thus justifying the wizards "teaching" ability. Also, since summoned creatures are under the control of the wizard or apprentice, they should help increase too by a similar logic as stated above.<br /><br />However, again if there is too much micro, just the wizard and apprentice would do :)<br /><br />The other reason why the rest of the warband doesnt attribute to the exp count is because they are hired soldiers. Fairly indirect in that sense. Also, this adds a lot more strategic planning as would one risk sending the wizard out to make the kill for the exp and perhaps die trying, or simply stay back and play it safe. <br /><br />WAY more strategic eh? hahaha<br /><br />2) Yes, please dont change it. Treasure hunting is a very good mechanic. It is fine beacuse the treasure has a random element where it contains has to be rolled for<br /><br />3) I would say to add both types. Every spell cast is perhaps 5xp and the first time a different spell is cast, 25xp. Definitely to push players to use different spells. (Most games are currently, bone darts and elemental bolts flying everywhere).<br /><br />However, to take away the xp for every spell successfully cast, it is a tad bit dampening especially when we've started out gaining xp that way<br /><br />4) I love the idea of subplots but having to reduce xp from other sources depending on the rolled scenario would be too much micro-managing.<br /><br />5) Yep this gives diversity to the players. Else the game would just be a hack-n-slash, and worse of all GRINDING game. Grinding is exactly why we dont play mmorpgs! (in my humblest of humbles opinion hahaha)<br /><br />OVERALL: I feel that reducing the xp to a fixed amount with a balance of subplots would be good but please keep in mind that for people who dont play that often, say.. once a month, leveling can take a LONG LONG time. <br /><br />Other than that, you are one the most responsible and passionate game designers out there. I mean... to still think about improving the game after its been out (and overall well-received), it makes us players really happy that we always have something to look forward to since nothing will be stagnant.<br /><br />Thanks Joe. Awesome stuffKris Fuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10495501469600195756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-2488012759535726682016-04-20T04:13:17.610-07:002016-04-20T04:13:17.610-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kris Fuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10495501469600195756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-43369786637108278302016-04-20T00:15:10.173-07:002016-04-20T00:15:10.173-07:00Pretty much agree with all the tweaks you suggest ...Pretty much agree with all the tweaks you suggest Joe - we dropped the XP for killing pretty quickly and replaced with 20XP/spell cast but this is too much so would suggest 25XP for the first casting of an individual spell in a game and then 5XP for every casting after thatAdeGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-89575300697007500302016-04-19T21:48:25.588-07:002016-04-19T21:48:25.588-07:00What happens to the treasure on the board after tu...What happens to the treasure on the board after turn 6?Tim:Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08781225481475157494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-17258851852665253002016-04-18T07:29:28.553-07:002016-04-18T07:29:28.553-07:00We give 20 points for successful spell casts, no p...We give 20 points for successful spell casts, no points for kills on other players or random encounters, 50 exp points for treasure and limit the games to 6 turns. I would favor 20 exp points to the head wizard if he kills the random encounter creature. Once the exp levels get in the 20s the games are no longer fun. If you chose poorly and dont get gold or lots of experience the "wrong"<br /> schools of magic spells are hard to win with dashetalhttp://aol.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-74930599204194081262016-04-16T10:33:38.057-07:002016-04-16T10:33:38.057-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lootedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166923149514370098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-31467910046444927952016-04-16T09:44:30.274-07:002016-04-16T09:44:30.274-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lootedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166923149514370098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3781995839246169257.post-74527219462066101112016-04-16T08:30:18.451-07:002016-04-16T08:30:18.451-07:00I'm definitely seeing a trend. A fair amount w...I'm definitely seeing a trend. A fair amount want a wizard duel... so I say make that a scenario. One treasure for every additional player. Ie 1 treasure 2 players. Makes it fast paced.<br /><br />Another one would be king of the hill, control the pillar. Pillar is 2" diameter and 9" high ( can be higher but on a platform) the pillar is in a pit or has raised structures around it.<br /><br />The core mechanics don't need to be changed for enticement to combat or less combat. Just balanced to allow players to get the most out of their choice of play.<br /><br />Added scenarios will make the best of enticing combat or a more competitive game.<br /><br />CheersLootedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17166923149514370098noreply@blogger.com